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Reliable Sources Are Just As Suspect

by aaroncynic | 03/24/2007

There's a debate flowing back and forth over at Wikipedia, about the validity of Zinewiki (the Wiki site dedicated to zines) having its own Wikipedia entry. This doesn't mean that Zinewiki the site will be deleted, just that the Wikipedia entry *about* Zinewiki is targeted for deletion. While that may seem kind of redundant from an outside perspective (it's also an argument that I'll leave to folks more experienced with Wikipedia), an interesting side debate is developing in the discussion.

You can read into the details, rules, and regulations about Wikipedia's policies regarding the validity of threads on your own time - I'll do my best to sum it up here. Basically, an article can be nominated for deletion by any admin if it is perceived that the article violates any number of policies. The Zinewiki entry, specifically, is nominated for deletion (for the second time after consensus on its status was not able to be reached during the first deletion nomination) because it is either "not-notable" or does not come from a "reliable source."

What's sparked my interest in this debate (I'll admit that I have my own interests due to my own contributions and relationship to the site. That however, is irrelevant to this particular commentary) is a comment posted in the discussion:

"Credible sources are a non-negotiable point. That this has only been covered by other 'zines and blogs suggests it is not notable to the wider world. Nobody is questioning people's right to free speech, but something self-published simply does not carry the same weight as one with with paid staff, editorial oversight, incorporation, etc... —dgiestc 02:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)"

In the current media climate, the idea of what constitutes a "reliable source" and why those sources carry "more weight" should be called into question. This is not an idea that is limited to Wikipedia discussions and other fringe debates - this is mainstream opinion. For decades we've relied on "reliable sources" to bring us news, views, facts, opinions, and most importantly, ideas. What exactly then, makes one source more reliable than the next? Is it just having a federal tax ID number, a bank account, and some editorial oversight? Is a reliable source one that has a bloated advertising budget, chained at the ankle to its sponsors? Is it some kid in his basement with a tape recorder and computer, copying and stapling interviews from street demonstrations to pass out at the next anti-war march? Are any of the former examples "reliable," or does the definition of a "reliable source" fall somewhere in between? More importantly, do we need to take a long hard look at what we mean when we ask the question "is the source reliable?"

"Free media, true free media, is defined by the people and their right to free speech, to publishing underground papers and 'zines and their right to disseminate these works. Certainly, under major media attacks on the credibility of Wikimedia and its sources, one might feel the need to do away with all things which cannot meet so-called "higher standards", but one must also ask if this isn't overkill...--Leafypie 01:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC) "

It's no secret that the readership in print media has been in steady decline for many years. It's also no secret that the abolishment of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 (Regan), the Telecom Act of 1996 (Clinton), further major media mergers, and the continuing deregulation of ownership rules have had a profound effect on what kind of media we consume, and how we view media in this country. Anyone, from journalists to couch potatoes to bloggers have always had opinions and interests in what exactly makes a source "reliable." The idea that information we produce and receive should be accurate and free of bias isn't novel, and neither is the idea that the information we receive and produce should reflect our values and culture.

The idea that the MSM (mainstream media) produces accurate information that is free of bias and reflects our values and culture is beyond questionable. Today's media landscape consists of major media conglomerates that hold themselves accountable to their shareholders before the public. We've seen countless scandals where journalists plagarize and fabricate stories (Steven Glass, Jason Blair, etc). Our government embeds journalists with the military and fabricates stories (WMD's, the Iraq/911 connection, the infamous story about babies thrown from incubators in the first Gulf War...just to name a few). Corporations routinely release VNR's (Video News Releases), which are product ads carefully disguised and reported as actual news. We should be a tad more than concerned about what exactly makes a source "reliable."

If the site I work with, Fall of Autumn, incorporated tomorrow and began paying its three "employees," do we then, become a reliable source for information? If the three parties involved in the site's day to day operations became formal "editors," still producing the same content, would that make us any more "reliable?" How about Punk Planet - a magazine which does have editorial oversight, paid staff, and incorporation? I'm sure PP could be considered "unreliable" for a few reasons that mostly involve circulation numbers. Are The Nation and Mother Jones any more or less reliable than US News and World Report or Time? Could we consider CAN TV a less "reliable source" than Fox News, simply because of ratings and the paychecks of its producers?

A "reliable source" should not and can not be defined by its budget, producers, or executive staff. A "reliable source" should not and can not be defined by how close its reporters get to sit in the White House press room, or who's embedded with what platoon in Iraq. It's true, plenty of small press and internet sites produce nothing but complete bull plop. It's also true, that there's just as much shit being shoveled at the New York Times. They however, have a much nicer office.

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I find you fairly reliable ...
Submitted by kate on Sat, 03/24/2007 - 9:21pm.

... but never use "MSM" or "VNR" again. Acronyms are shady. Morehouse School of Medicine? Veterans National Radio? You confuse me.

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one commenter on the Wiki Discussion...
PAUL M DAVIS's picture
Submitted by PAUL M DAVIS on Sat, 03/24/2007 - 10:32pm.

Actually does question PP's credibility as a source, which then creates this trickle-down effect of credibility. At what point does ZineWiki become worthy of citation? When PP refers to it? Then at what point does PP become worthy as a reference? Do PP mentions from mainstream media titans such as Washington Post inherently lend PP a certain credibility that the work the magazine has been doing for 13 years can not?

I find it strange/fitting/puzzling that an allegedly "exhaustive" encyclopedia maintained "by the people" (the people with Internet access and the sort of leisure time to debate these things ad nauseum) is so beholden to certain, antiquated notions of credibility and significance.


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yeah.
Sinker's picture
Submitted by Sinker on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 4:01pm.

PAUL M DAVIS wrote:
I find it strange/fitting/puzzling that an allegedly "exhaustive" encyclopedia maintained "by the people" (the people with Internet access and the sort of leisure time to debate these things ad nauseum) is so beholden to certain, antiquated notions of credibility and significance.

No fucking kidding! What a bizarre argument.


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Backed
aaroncynic's picture
Submitted by aaroncynic on Mon, 03/26/2007 - 4:36pm.

Agreed. I think the entire notion of "credibility" is suspect. I mean, I get that Wikipedia really really wants to be a real encyclopedic source that is for and by "the people," but I think they forgot to ask themselves "which people?"

"Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education."


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well except that
anne elizabeth moore's picture
Submitted by anne elizabeth moore on Tue, 03/27/2007 - 8:40am.

i have to be totally honest with you. i'd accept as valid something by "punk planet" over something posted or created by "leafypie 684" any time. for the same exact reason i'd hang out with someone named larry more readily than i'd hang out with someone named "axe-murderin' larry," even if he told me over and over it was just an ironic nickname.

not that i'm advocating for respect for the staid—actually quite the opposite. i'm arguing, ultimately, that if you want to be taken seriously, don't go calling yourself "DolphinLover2029" or whatever.

and, i mean, let's be totally honest—if you think this is weird, you probably shouldn't care whether or not wikipedia ultimately accepts the zinewiki as credible. move on. they'll come around.


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Books and Covers
aaroncynic's picture
Submitted by aaroncynic on Tue, 03/27/2007 - 5:39pm.

Oh I get that part. Personally, I don't think it's earth shattering or anything that the Wikipedia folks have issues with the idea of a Wiki entry about Zinewiki. Frankly, that's not a discussion that I'm equipped to get involved with (last time round I posted one little entry in the discussion page, then I got called a "meatpuppet," and I realized it wasn't in reference to the band, cried a little, then drank a box of wine) or even terribly interested in.

What I'm more interested in is the way people define what constitutes a "reliable source." Yes, I definitely agree that it's hard to take someone seriously who refers to themself as "oiboi77roxor," but I don't have much room to talk, as almost all of my login names and e-mail addresses to things refer to me as Aaron Cynic - a name that I'm completely fine with. I however, would be more inclined to take our fictional Oi Boi!'s word on say, something related to a fight at an Oxblood show before I'd take the word of the journalist from fox who did the expose' a few years ago on the terrors of moshing. I'd probably even go so far as to value reporting from "dolphinlover2029" as much as I value reporting from Geraldo, which is about as much as I enjoy boxes of wine.

In other words, we should be able to hold people to a higher standard that claim to be journalists and don't use funny screen names. I think that becomes less possible with every passing news story about decoding the secrets of text messaging, followed by 20 minutes worth of sports wrap ups, followed by the traditional throwing of softball questions at Tony Snow, followed by 90 minutes of the Joe Scarborough Ann Coulter Chris Matthews pajama jammy jam.

Incidentally, I'd much rather hang out with Axe Murdering Larry than Larry. I'm sure Axe Murdering Larry has way cooler, much more embellished stories to tell.

"Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education."


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