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The beginning of the research project I'll never get off the ground

by cassiopoeia | 02/27/2007 | in anarchy | Bikini Kill | capitalism | chaos | intellectual culture | movement politics | NOFX | rebellion

While I have often been a critic of those in the punk movement who subscribe to the ideal of anarchy, my research thus far has helped me reevaluate my own position as a participant in both punk and mainstream societies. Anarchy under the punk movement is not, as it may appear, grounded in the proposal of a lawless, chaotic statelessness. It may be strange for a person who has participated heavily as a punk for nearly a decade to write this, but I just got anarchy. It is critical to distinguish the punk proposal of anarchy as the removal of compulsory laws which are created in a non-participatory environment (such as the current constitutional republic of the United States).

This understanding of the call by punk to “Murder the Government ” is a second major turning point for me in the development of this proposed plan of research. The first was the realization that many (though by no means all) researchers before this point have mischaracterized punk as an adolescent phase of rebellion by suburbanites against their parents rather than a meaningful social movement. Bikini Kill, which while specifically framing a feminist movement within punk also demonstrates a feeling within the punk movement as a whole, declairs:

“BECAUSE we must take over the means of production to create our own moanings [. . .] BECAUSE we don’t wanna assimilate to someone else’s (boy) standards of what is or isn’t [. . .] BECAUSE we know that life is much more than physical survival and are patently aware that the punk rock “you can do anything” idea is crucial to the coming angry grrrl revolution that seeks to save the psychic and cultural lives of girls and women everywhere, according to their own terms, not ours. BECAUSE we are interested in creating non-hierarchical ways of being AND making music, friends, and scenes based on communication + understanding, instead of competition + good/bad categorizations.”

While it is not inaccurate to say that teenage rebellion often arises dressed in the ‘uniform’ popularized by the punk movement throughout the last thirty years, it is not fair to characterize the punk movement using this population as a standard. While some of these members of the punk movement may indeed learn, be influenced by and participate in punk politics, many are simply experimenting with the role of the rebel and will “grow out” of the culture later in life. Regardless, the outward signs displayed by these neophyte punks are often the most radical (short of those displayed by band members: the “professional” punks) and thus are more able to be targeted as a population by researchers.

A second mischaracterization is the idea that punks become punk in order to create a sense of individuality against the tide of mainstream consumerist culture, and for these punks identity ends with individuality. However, this only allows part of the story of punk identity to be told, and thus oversimplifies the goals of the movement, allowing the misreading of the movement and leading to the fallacious conclusion that “Punk is Dead .” The story of punk identity does not end with a creation in each punk of a sense of individuality (except in relation to the personal choice to deviate from mainstream culture), but in reality with a sense of community and belonging .

The emergence of popular punk culture (realized in the Hot Topic chain store as well as the commercial success of many punk bands) has been taken by many as proof that punk has died and its remains have been commodified by the establishments it challenged. Essentially, the authenticity of modern punk sentiment has come into doubt because of its growing popularity and the perceived endorsement by popular culture. An understanding of anarchy and a rectification of the issue of punk identity enable the ability to question the reality of punk’s demise.

I argue that the modern “marketing of punk” does not signify the triumph of capitalism over the punk movement, but rather the success the punk movement has had in resetting the boundaries of society and in some senses occupying the means of cultural production to promote its own ends. Punk is successful because it has changed the way we conceive the world – through moderation of the body, diffusion of musical styles, and a redefining of what is the frontier of the radical in society.

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necrotizing fasciitis says:
Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 4:44pm.

There are two things wrong with the above title.

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...
r.john's picture
Submitted by r.john on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 4:46pm.

SCUMFUCKS LIKE US LOVE MOUTHFUCKING.

p/s BEER.


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necrotizing fasciitis says:
Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 6:10pm.

My original snide comment was going to be about the struggling grad student tone of the whole thing. Looks like my judgement is still sharp in some respects. You're working from some wildly faulty premises (from a grad level perspective, that is -- it would almost seems praiseworthy if it were a high school assignment -- maybe a B+/A- Writing 101 assignment depending on how much leeway I'm given grading down for content). I suggest you drop it and find and a legitimate topic. Leave the broad pop/sub cultural analysis to curmudgeonly zine publishers.

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pop/sub cultural analysis to curmudgeonly zine publishers
r.john's picture
Submitted by r.john on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 6:15pm.

he means me.


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Also this is bunko.
r.john's picture
Submitted by r.john on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 6:50pm.

The emergence of popular punk culture (realized in the Hot Topic chain store as well as the commercial success of many punk bands) has been taken by many as proof that punk has died and its remains have been commodified by the establishments it challenged.

I think that is setting up a lighter fluid doused straw man argument. Popular punk culture is not punk. Therefore, your premise is wrong.

Essentially, the authenticity of modern punk sentiment has come into doubt because of its growing popularity and the perceived endorsement by popular culture. An understanding of anarchy and a rectification of the issue of punk identity enable the ability to question the reality of punk’s demise.

What do you mean by "authenticity?"

How do you make a distinction between the "perceived endorsement of popular culture" and the actual endorsement bands like the Clash (opening for the Who's farewell tour 1982/american top ten hit in '83) or Bikini Kill (riot grrl as Sassy Magazine poptarts and Esquire magazine's DO ME feminism) received during their punkest moments?

Also, punk has been dead almost the moment before it was supposedly invented. These sorts of anathemas are devoid of scholarship and serve only as lotion to stroke the intellectual love pump to frantic squirt of meaningless conjecture.

I argue that the modern “marketing of punk” does not signify the triumph of capitalism over the punk movement, but rather the success the punk movement has had in resetting the boundaries of society and in some senses occupying the means of cultural production to promote its own ends.

I am with you up until you fall into the trap that "punk" is mainstreaming itself as resistance. Check out the bad marketing decisions thread for a more realized critique of when underground/marginalized tactics are employed by the static powers of capitalism.

Punk is successful because it has changed the way we conceive the world – through moderation of the body, diffusion of musical styles, and a redefining of what is the frontier of the radical in society.

Do you mean modification of the body? If not what has punk done to make the body more moderate? If anything the scene has sought to disrupt and destroy the body's primary functioning (GG Allin would make a good study on the implosion of the Desiring Machine).

The diffusion of musical styles? You mean the 4/4 progression and heightening the bar chord to a maestro's complexity? Tune down and burn up.

Punk's radicalism, for what can actually be assessed of it, is hardly on the frontier of any social movement. Otherwise, why would so many kids listen to NOFX, read Chomsky like he was the Delphic oracle, and dress in so much denim and cotton?

Sorry, but I think you should redefine your project away from this thing you call punk.


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PLEASE...
steep's picture
Submitted by steep on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 7:03pm.

I argue that the modern “marketing of punk” does not signify the triumph of capitalism over the punk movement, but rather the success the punk movement has had in resetting the boundaries of society and in some senses occupying the means of cultural production to promote its own ends. Please do not argue this. Using the language of empowerment as a script to cover over or justify blatant cop-option and subordination is horrible. The use of left-wing political ideas of individuality within community should not be co-opted by right wing capitalist forces as a fucking salve so we feel liberated without actually threatening the status quo. I am not with you on that part at all.


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necrotizing fasciitis says:
Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 7:13pm.

I think approaching "punk" from a sociological perspective is bound to stumble into just about every pitfall possible. The field is concerned with making normative assessments about group interaction. If you want to truly deal with "punk" as a revolutionary movement (re: anarchism) rather than as a consumer based identity group, I don't think sociology even offers the tools to do it. Perhaps cultural anthropology or history. And that's even assuming that "punk" has any coherent significance as a social movement or ideology -- which I'm not convinced that it ever has.

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necrotizing fasciitis says:
Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 7:20pm.

Apparently editing comments makes them appear at the bottom of the page.

Anyway, this was where I condescendingly derided your rudimentary notions about "anarchy."

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tags
Sinker's picture
Submitted by Sinker on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 10:30pm.

beyond the fact that I agree with pretty much everything said in these comments so far (a rarity, I know), your GIANT uni-tag was driving me nuts, so I broke it down into its receptive parts.


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Oooo a new person
messagereceived's picture
Submitted by messagereceived on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 10:37pm.

Quick, scare her away.


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Oh...
steep's picture
Submitted by steep on Tue, 02/27/2007 - 11:16pm.

Woof Woof, Josh. (new paragraph). Truth is, this post just tapped into my general annoyance at what I see as false positivity going round at the moment. There just seems to be too much stuff about how criticism and complaint equates with negativity, and how negataivity equates with victimhood and apathy. The result: the continual use of the language of power and self-assertion to describe what are ultimately states of victimhood, or in this case, what could easily be used as an excuse for placid consumerism. Sure, being positive is great, but not if it means you have to turn your head round backwards to convince yourself that shit tastes like chocolate.


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Cool . . . this is helping . . .keep ripping, please
Submitted by cassiopoeia on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:38am.

Legitimate thanks and please continue tearing this POS apart.

I really do want to do research into punk culture, but am having serious problems [as y'all noticed] operationalizing it. I figured somebody would rip it apart (and after I got over the "nobody likes me" initial reaction I realized I got what I asked for). It was the sort of thing you throw together at 1am on the day it's due.

Would the concept of "popular punk culture" [which is definitely not punk, I agree] be clearer if it were identified by something else, like "co-opted quasi-punk culture" (or just posers)? Maybe it would help if I better defined what I even mean by culture. I mean, even the best cultural theorists can't come up with a single clear meaning for "culture." I should separate the idea of material culture from the idea of ideological culture. I'm still not clear on how saying that just 'cause there are posers doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate punks still in existence is a straw man, though.

By "authenticity," I mean legitimacy and efficacy. I'm saying that because of posers, the world at large has reason to doubt if being "punk" means anything at all anymore (if it ever did).

By "perceived endorsement" I don't mean individual entities saying "yeah, punk's alright," but the acceptance of the material culture of punk by authority figures such as parents and employers as harmless and non-inflammatory.

As far as punk being dead almost from the beginning, I disagree. I can't take the opinion of one set of authors in the '70's and the resulting song title on the Feeding of the 5000 as gospel. Who gave Crass the OK to speak for an entire international movement? I admit, I'm not hugely versed on this, but to me it seems like if Jerry Falwell got up and said "This Christianity thing, yeah, I think it's dead."

I can't fight any of you on the really shit idea that marketing=resistance. Even I don't buy it, and I wrote it. All I can say is I'm a whore, and I did it for the grade (I had a Marxist prof, and he ate it up).

By "body moderation" I mean the ability to control one's own presentation to the world - the ability to chose the visual cues and symbols used on/around the body to communicate with others [including "disruption"]. By "diffusion of musical styles" I mean cultural diffusion, by which characteristics of one group are adopted by other groups - Nirvana claiming punk as an influence, for example, or the development of psychobilly as a melding of two musical styles.

I agree with Necrotizing Fasiitis that I am walking through a minefield here, though I disagree that the sociological tools aren't there (ethnography is pretty much the same in both sociology and cultural anthropology). Don't take it out on sociology just cause I'm an amateur. As far as generalizability goes, I think I'll have to correct for that by just looking at one scene at a time and then seeing if I find any similarities between, say, the celt scene in Boston and the psychobilly scene in Austin.

Also, since the a punk scene is rarely a culture which one is born into, it is an achieved identity and I don't think we can can claim "victimhood" by capitalism - we know the fight we're getting into before we get into it - it's part of why a lot of people get into it.

Believe me when I ask you to continue kicking my ass on the concepts (and keep recommending things to read - I'm stranded in a department of feminists, so authors like Frank don't get suggested).

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necrotizing fasciitis says:
Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:57am.

More editing woes.

In regard to steve's comment about coopting subversive culture, he's totally right. If you don't believe us, go read Tom Frank's The Conquest of Cool.

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.
Miranda Bastard's picture
Submitted by Miranda Bastard on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 2:20pm.

r.john wrote:
or Bikini Kill (riot grrl as Sassy Magazine poptarts and Esquire magazine's DO ME feminism)

While I think that Kathleen Hanna is a self-righteous, whiny dolt, I have to say that I fucking hate the term "do me feminism". I hate it mostly because of the blatant misogyny in the assumption that it is still all about the male consumer (forgive me for the heteronormative nature of this, but in my experience it is usually straight men who use this term). What is referred to as "do me feminism" is most often sex-positive feminism fronted by young women. And while much of sex-positive feminism's efforts in my opinion are somewhat misguided (Bust's endorsement of Suicide Girls and Jessica Valenti's [of feministing.com] boobgate nonsense being good examples of this), the assumption that all these feminists want is some good dicking is still problematic and false.

It makes no sense to me why otherwise progressive males see no problem in borrowing words from rightwing windbags when it comes to discounting feminism.


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necrotizing fasciitis says:
Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 3:03pm.

My understanding is that the term, while coined by a male, was adopted immediately (by friends of the aforementioned man) by female feminists who were trying to define a new sense of sex-positivity. And while it wasn't their only feminist demand, wanting a good dicking (without feeling like they were supposed to be ashamed for it) was definitely on the table.

If the term has been derided or used cynically by some people (progressive men included), then that's par for the course. The term from the start seems to have implied an irony that wasn't likely to be picked up on by most people.

Now I haven't followed the evolution of the term over the last ten years, but I'm pretty sure (if blogs tell me anything) that there are still some women out there that subscribe to it (under the appellation of Fuck Me Feminism). So, I don't think the mere use of the term implies the kind of misogynist attitude toward sex that you think it does.

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.
Miranda Bastard's picture
Submitted by Miranda Bastard on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 3:11pm.

I have only ever seen/heard it used as a term of derision for sex-positive feminism, usually by men and sometimes by older feminists (similar to how Germaine Greer refers to Naomi Wolf's work as "bimbo feminism").

I've never heard any feminists openly embrace it as a term for themselves and their movement.


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Victimhood by capitalism
steep's picture
Submitted by steep on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 4:07pm.

I don't think we can can claim "victimhood" by capitalism - we know the fight we're getting into before we get into it - it's part of why a lot of people get into it.
.

That's fine, for those of us with the education and inherited privilege to do OK in a capitalist system, despite our hatred of it. Global capitalism chews and and spits out vast numbers of other folks who I think could fairly be described as victims of capitalism.

In many ways I couldn't really give a shit about how market forces have invented pop punk and now we have to put up with blokes in tight jeans and eyeliner everywhere. It's just happens to be a very visible example of the way in which what could be, and in some cases still are, positive forces within our society get swallowed up by mainstream doppelgangers. They make it safe...

Anyway, in your first post, something about your argument just smacked of someone who didn't really care either way, and so therefore decided to argue, in a fairly abstract and detached manner, that black was white / that pop punk marketing means that punk is 'occupying the means of cultural production', just because your critical skills enable you to have a go at arguing that. Now you've said that you don't really buy this idea either. I'm glad.

PS: please explain to me how your Marxist prof could possibly concur that the fairly mainstream use of signs and tokens from subversive culture, primarily to make money off teenagers, equals the 'occupying the means of cultural production' by a subservive force. I really don't know much about modern Marxist thought so I have no idea how a person could get their head around this.


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do me feminazis
r.john's picture
Submitted by r.john on Wed, 02/28/2007 - 7:21pm.

I only brought the Esquire article up because it underlined my point that riot grrl (bikini kill, in particular, because of the original reference) had blipped on the capital-culture radar almost seconds after its forceful pushing toward the stage through the fist-moshing-Nike-suit-clad-knucklethals.

I did not mean to imply anything other than the point that Riot Grrl's pouty-lunchbox-bobbie-sox-crudeness was never a fully realized underground radicalism, rather it was an almost instantaneous media darling, curling its upper lip on the cover of glossy, corporate-operated Claptraps. Any other meaning was accidental.


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Thanks, john!
Gordon lamb's picture
Submitted by Gordon lamb on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 4:43am.

r.john wrote:
rather it was an almost instantaneous media darling, curling its upper lip on the cover of glossy, corporate-operated Claptraps.

Way to go buddy. Thanks for reminding me that when I was buying Sassy's first issues Miranda was, oh, like 3 years old!


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.....::::........::
r.john's picture
Submitted by r.john on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 10:57am.

Now we know how the sex pistols punks felt about us!


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.
Miranda Bastard's picture
Submitted by Miranda Bastard on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 3:03pm.

But John, the same could be said for punk in general. It was the image that was co-opted by the glossies, and not the message. I think that some of the "stars" of the riot grrrl movement are partially at fault for this (I'm thinking specifically of Kathleen Hanna and Courtney Love), for simply failing to bring their political/social discourse along with them when they were brought into the mainstream.

And Gordon, quit being an asshole. My age has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.


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<<(+)>>
r.john's picture
Submitted by r.john on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 3:32pm.

Miranda, that was actually the original point I was trying to establish against Cass' statement of punk's "perceived endorsement of popular culture"

The origins of punk are incredibly murky and like with many historical locations are arbitrarily assigned for the purposes of argument or thesis.

That aside, I think that, as Aaron has pointed out several times already, Cass' understanding and deployment of "punk" is shallow and contrived. The exposition of posuer v authentic punk is a rhetorical distinction which, ultimately, will sink her proposed project.


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.
Miranda Bastard's picture
Submitted by Miranda Bastard on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 4:30pm.

Ah, I see. I took your later comment to mean that you believed that the media-friendly angry but cute image was indicative of the nature and substance of the entire riot grrrl movement.

And I definitely agree with you on the shallowness of the OP's understanding.


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Good God...
Gordon lamb's picture
Submitted by Gordon lamb on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 6:01pm.

Miranda Bastard wrote:

And Gordon, quit being an asshole. My age has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Way to be, like, waaaay senstive and defensive.
My post was meant to be making a joke about MY age.


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.
Miranda Bastard's picture
Submitted by Miranda Bastard on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 11:26pm.

Gordon, calm down. I use words like "asshole" and "bastard" a lot more lightly than most people. I wasn't really that upset. It just gets annoying to have my age brought up in any serious discussion I participate in on here, whether it is directly relevent or not.


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ok
Gordon lamb's picture
Submitted by Gordon lamb on Sun, 03/04/2007 - 11:36pm.

Miranda Bastard wrote:
Gordon, calm down. I use words like "asshole" and "bastard" a lot more lightly than most people. I wasn't really that upset. It just gets annoying to have my age brought up in any serious discussion I participate in on here, whether it is directly relevent or not.

It's hard sometimes to tell if you're seriously upset at something or just being your normal, ruff-n-ready self. (and I mean that as a compliment.) So, maybe you can understand where I'm coming from?

One thing, though, if there's ever a discussion where age is brought up and IT IS relevant, you shouldn't get annoyed. I can't, of the top of head, imagine a situation but if one were to come up and it was germane to the conversation then it seems acceptable. Same would go for me.


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punk lasted for 100 days in
Fun In the Dark's picture
Submitted by Fun In the Dark on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 2:29pm.

punk lasted for 100 days in 1977. thats it.


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manifesto
Fun In the Dark's picture
Submitted by Fun In the Dark on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 2:33pm.

Had there been a punk manifesto created...you wouldn't even be writing about this. But there wasn't. There is no distinct definition for punk, thus, punk does not exist.


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Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 10:03am.

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Submitted by necrotizing fas... on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 10:03am.

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