Mormons=Insane or just stupid?

All the Mormons I have ever met have been very nice people, if not necessarily what you would call brilliant. And Jack Mormons are the best.

that because Jesus and Mohammed are 'legitimate historical figures' neither of them 'invented shit up.'

I guess I actually like Mormonism for that very reason -- it is like an enfant terrible provocateur performance artist, sort of the Dada or Situationism of world religion. I enjoy that other cultists get all het up about the ridiculousness of the magic underwear or what have you so as to conceal from themselves the dread knowledge that their e.g. magic cookies are equally ridiculous.

No, fair enough. I see how one might appreciate the absurdity of the Mormon belief. Yet you appreciate from outside, not subscribe from inside. Which is why we can have a conversation that I would be unable to have with a believer.

I suspect I am actually older than you. And I find that as I get older I waver between the pity and pathetic envy (well put) you describe and a visceral reaction to the True Believers. The latter response is fueled by the increasing evidence that True Believers inflict so much hate, anger and destruction on the world in the name of their True Belief. There is a big difference between those who accept their stupidity and try not to do harmful things and those who are convinced of the righteousness of their actions. I would like to think that I belong in the former category.

I know a Mormon guy who never leaves the attic and pisses in a jar because he is too lazy to walk to the bathroom down the hall. He also got fired because he was looking at porn and jerking off at work.

I pretty much use him as a watermark as to where all Mormons end up. I see the Church of Latter Day Saints as a particularly cruel manifestation of American fundamentalism.

Cruel because the church imposes a level of destitute poverty upon a certain proscribed (and heavenly appointed) group of sub-members who are then afforded good works and charity. But all the good works and charity are designed to keep kicking the poor down, pegged into their permenant roles of downtrodden and low upon the earth.

The Church Of Latter Day Saints, much like the Catholic Church, covers up child abuse - and in covering it up or denying it happens actually promotes and encourages it.

But then I tend to take almost the polar opposite opinion of Greg in this regard. I think religion functions only as a closed system of hatred and degradation, offering no hope or solace - only paranoia and self-assured zealotry.

I know a Mormon guy who never leaves the attic and pisses in a jar because he is too lazy to walk to the bathroom down the hall. He also got fired because he was looking at porn and jerking off at work.
I pretty much use him as a watermark as to where all Mormons end up.

I am this guy without the Mormonism, not that that necessarily invalidates your theory.

the church imposes a level of destitute poverty upon a certain proscribed (and heavenly appointed) group of sub-members who are then afforded good works and charity. But all the good works and charity are designed to keep kicking the poor down, pegged into their permenant roles of downtrodden and low upon the earth.

Again, how does this differ significantly from the lives of most of us peons under late capitalism? This is basically a reiteration of my argument that all religions are obviously ridiculous and that singling out the LDS as more harmful because they are arguably among the more flamboyantly ridiculous is a concretely weird tendency I have observed in many otherwise right-thinking people.

But then I tend to take almost the polar opposite opinion of Greg in this regard. I think religion functions only as a closed system of hatred and degradation, offering no hope or solace - only paranoia and self-assured zealotry.

Whoa there, hoss. I guess you should know since you are a Right Reverend and all, but please don't construe my envy of something as a defense of it. I envy Dick Cheney too. I envy in particular the highly rarefied delusionality that allows someone to believe that everything in life is going according to some divine plan and that they will see their loved ones again after death. It is difficult for me to exercise too much contempt for someone else's delusions when I myself am delusional in many respects -- just not lucky enough to be in this particular respect that might make me less miserable. But having never actually been religious myself, I only have some vague idea of what it is to be religious rather than knowing first-hand what it is to be religious, so you may be on point.

I don't even know and know I don't want to know. What I really want to know is when are you planting the bombs/founding the One True Church.

where the alcoholic nihilist philosophy professor who buys a haunted house in Upstate New York has a Mormon assassin come after him. Oh no! I just spoiled the worst aspect of the novel. Otherwise it is a pretty good novel. You'll have to trust me.

Plus you are wrong about everything, just because you read a book once does not mean that the british drive on the left side of the road you hypocrite.